0001 1 UNITED STATES OF AMERICA 2 MERIT SYSTEM PROTECTION BOARD 3 WESTERN REGIONAL OFFICE 4 C YEE, 5 Appellant, 6 No. vs. SF-0752-08-0109-I-1 7 DEPARTMENT OF LABOR, 8 Agency. 9 / 10 11 12 13 14 DEPOSITION OF ROBERT A. GADDIE 15 16 17 18 DATE: May 7, 2008 19 TIME: 1:51 p.m. 20 LOCATION: FEDERAL BUILDING 21 90 Seventh Street San Francisco, California 22 REPORTED BY: Suzanne A. Quan 23 Certified Shorthand Reporter License Number 5157 24 25 0002 1 A P P E A R A N C E S 2 3 For the Appellant Pro Se: 4 C YEE (address & phone redacted) 5 6 7 For the Agency: 8 ANDREW J. SCHULTZ, Trial Attorney US DEPARTMENT OF LABOR 9 OFFICE OF THE SOLICITOR 90 7th Street, Suite 3-700 10 San Francisco, California 94103 415.625.7745 11 12 Also Present: 13 ROZ ITELSON REGIONAL LABOR RELATIONS OFFICER 14 US DEPARTMENT OF LABOR 90 Seventh Street, Suite 12-300 15 San Francisco, California 94103 16 17 18 19 20 21 22 23 24 25 0003 1 I N D E X 2 3 EXAMINATION BY: PAGE: 4 MS. YEE 4 5 6 7 8 INDEX OF QUESTIONS 9 WITNESS REFUSED TO ANSWER OR 10 INSTRUCTED BY COUNSEL NOT TO ANSWER 11 Page Line 12 5 25 13 6 8 6 13 14 9 7 11 5 15 11 21 12 5 16 12 15 17 18 19 20 21 22 23 24 25 0004 1 2 3 4 ROBERT A. GADDIE, 5 called as a witness by the Appellant, who, having been 6 duly sworn by me, was examined and testified as 7 hereinafter set forth. 8 --oOo-- 9 EXAMINATION BY THE APPELLANT 10 BY MS. YEE: 11 Q. Could you please state your name for the 12 record. 13 A. Robert A. Gaddie. 14 Q. And have you had your deposition taken before? 15 A. Yes. 16 Q. I'm still going to go over a couple of the 17 ground rules today just so we're on the same page. 18 The reporter is going to make a written 19 transcript so it's important that you answer the 20 questions verbally instead of nodding or making 21 gestures. I'm not going to give you trick questions. 22 I'm going to find out from your perspective what 23 happened. So if I'm saying something that doesn't make 24 sense to you or is unclear, just stop me and I'll 25 clarify it for you so we get a clear record. 0005 1 We want to make sure that we follow the 2 following rules: Wait until I complete the question 3 before you begin the answer. 4 If your attorney begins to object, don't talk 5 over him because the court reporter can only take one 6 voice at a time. 7 If you don't understand the question, please 8 ask me to rephrase it or to restate it. 9 You've just been placed under oath so your 10 testimony today could be used at a hearing or at a trial 11 just as if it were given at a trial. 12 After your deposition is taken, you will have 13 the opportunity to make corrections, if you find them 14 necessary. But I want to advise you that I have the 15 right to comment on any changes that you make. 16 Do you understand? 17 A. Yes. 18 Q. Is there anything that would prevent you from 19 giving your best testimony today? 20 A. No. 21 Q. Did you discuss this case with anyone prior to 22 coming here today? 23 A. Yes. 24 Q. With whom did you discuss this? 25 A. My attorney, Andrew. 0006 1 Q. Please, could you give the full name. 2 A. Andrew Schultz. 3 Q. And what did you discuss? 4 MR. SCHULTZ: Objection. Contents of my 5 conversations with Mr. Gaddie are covered by 6 attorney-client privilege. I'm going to instruct the 7 witness not to answer any questions related to any 8 conversations with or to divulge the contents of any 9 conversations that I've had with him. 10 BY MS. YEE: 11 Q. Did Mr. Schultz ask you to change any of your 12 previous statements? 13 MR. SCHULTZ: Same objection. Do not answer 14 that question. 15 BY MS. YEE: 16 Q. Did he ask you not to answer specific 17 questions that may come up? 18 MR. SCHULTZ: Same objection. Do not answer 19 that question. 20 BY MS. YEE: 21 Q. Did you bring the documents that you were 22 asked to bring? 23 MR. SCHULTZ: I'm going to interpose another 24 objection here. As I stated in the first several 25 depositions, the document request attached to a subpoena 0007 1 for deposition or notice of a deposition functions 2 exactly the same as an ordinary document request. The 3 time to respond has not arisen yet. 4 Additionally, the Agency intends to object to 5 what appears to be four requests for documents in the 6 deposition as not relevant. 7 BY MS. YEE: 8 Q. Did you review any documents before you came 9 to the deposition today? 10 A. Yes. 11 Q. What did you review? 12 A. Sequence of e-mails. 13 Q. And what is your current job title? 14 A. Associate commissioner for field operations. 15 Q. And to who do you report? 16 A. I report to the commissioner Keith Hall, 17 H-A-L-L. 18 Q. And to whom did you report in March of 2007? 19 A. Phil Rones, R-O-N-E-S, was acting commissioner 20 at that time. 21 Q. Before we get started on the specific case, I 22 would like to congratulation you on your recent 23 Presidential Rank Award. 24 A. Thank you. 25 Q. Can you tell me a little bit more about it. 0008 1 For instance, how does one get nominated for 2 this award? 3 MR. SCHULTZ: Object. This material is not 4 relevant to this case. 5 MS. YEE: It is indeed relevant to this case. 6 Q. Please tell me a little bit more about this 7 award? 8 MR. SCHULTZ: Again, same objection. 9 Instruct the witness that you're free to 10 answer or not answer. 11 THE WITNESS: The process is posted on the DOL 12 website. It's a nomination process that's reviewed by a 13 public panel and decisions are made. 14 BY MS. YEE: 15 Q. Who nominated you? 16 MR. SCHULTZ: Same objection. You're free to 17 answer if you wish. 18 THE WITNESS: I think Phil Rones, but to tell 19 you the truth, I can't remember for sure whether it was 20 him or Utgoff, previous commissioner. 21 BY MS. YEE: 22 Q. So you had an opportunity to meet Secretary 23 Chow, I take it? 24 A. Several times before that. 25 Q. That's wonderful. 0009 1 Did she praise you for your managerial 2 achievement? 3 MR. SCHULTZ: Objection. Again, conversations 4 that Mr. Gaddie has had with Secretary Chow are not 5 relevant to these proceedings. 6 You can answer the question. 7 THE WITNESS: I don't see any particular point 8 in this. 9 BY MS. YEE: 10 Q. So in addition to the usual plaques and kudos 11 that come with it, what was your monetary reward for the 12 presidential rank? 13 MR. SCHULTZ: Objection. His monetary reward 14 is irrelevant to this case. 15 You're free to answer as you see fit. 16 THE WITNESS: No. 17 BY MS. YEE: 18 Q. Let's go back in history. 19 If you would, describe our first encounter 20 when we first met, and that was in 2002, late 2002. 21 A. My recollection is that we met -- I'm thinking 22 maybe you arranged breakfast and then we walked over to 23 the building. You had just become EA&I chief, as I 24 recall, and it was a regional office visit. I don't 25 recall why I was here but that would be the obvious 0010 1 reason. 2 Q. Several months later, you played a role in 3 settling a 2002 EEO matter in which I was returned to my 4 EA&I chief job. 5 During the period in which I was no longer in 6 the EA&I chief job, you also intervened to supervise the 7 Johnson and Murphy sexual harassment matter before you. 8 Can you please describe what role you played 9 in supervising the San Francisco office during that 10 period. 11 A. I'm not understanding what you're saying, what 12 you're asking. 13 Q. During -- in December of 2002, I was back in 14 my fed/state role, and my two former subordinates 15 Johnson and Murphy, were having difficulties. 16 Ms. Murphy had complained of sexual harassment by 17 Mr. Johnson, and the sexual harassment was continuing. 18 Ms. Rankin and you had stepped in to intervene. And my 19 understanding is that you had helped to take care of the 20 problem and see to it that Ms. Murphy was granted some 21 relief. 22 What was your role at that time? 23 MR. SCHULTZ: Object to this question on a 24 number of grounds. First of all, the purpose of the 25 deposition is to ask the witness questions, not to 0011 1 testify. 2 Second of all, these events took place several 3 years ago and you're now asking the witness about 4 another complaint that is not in evidence, that is not 5 related to this case and does not involve yourself. 6 MS. YEE: Okay. 7 BY MS. YEE: 8 Q. So your testimony here today is that you did 9 not play a role? You did not intervene at that time? 10 MR. SCHULTZ: Objection. That misstates his 11 testimony. 12 You're free to describe the role that you 13 played at that time, if you wish. 14 THE WITNESS: I don't wish. 15 MS. YEE: Okay. 16 MR. SCHULTZ: Can we go off the record for a 17 minute. 18 (Discussion held off the record.) 19 BY MS. YEE: 20 Q. During what period did you supervise the 21 Dallas regional office? 22 A. From 1992 until 2003, with about six months I 23 think in 1999 when Janet Rankin supervised the office. 24 Q. Can you describe the interoffice romantic and 25 sexual relationships in that office, listing the 0012 1 employee and the reporting relationships between the 2 parties. 3 MR. SCHULTZ: Objection. I'm going to 4 instruct the witness not to answer that question. 5 BY MS. YEE: 6 Q. Are you going to take your attorney's advice? 7 A. Yes. 8 Q. Did you play any role in convincing the Dallas 9 state office to drop its sexual harassment complaint 10 against BLS? 11 MR. SCHULTZ: Objection. Assumes facts not in 12 evidence. Potentially involves confidential matters. 13 Certainly has no relevance or bearing whatsoever in this 14 case. 15 I'm going to instruct the witness not to 16 answer that question. 17 BY MS. YEE: 18 Q. Have you ever asked a grown woman to turn 19 around for you? 20 MR. SCHULTZ: Objection. I'm going to 21 instruct the witness not to answer that question. I'm 22 going to note for the record that if we don't start 23 making our way to relevant questions in these 24 proceedings, we'll be moving for sanctions to recover 25 the cost of Mr. Gaddie's travel and lodging to appear 0013 1 here. We've made him available locally at our expense, 2 as we're required to do so. The purpose of making him 3 available is to answer relevant, non-privileged 4 questions. 5 MS. YEE: Mr. Schultz -- 6 MR. SCHULTZ: Don't address me on the record, 7 please. The deposition proceeding is to ask questions 8 of the witness. 9 MS. YEE: Okay. I will rephrase the question. 10 BY MS. YEE: 11 Q. Do you believe that it is appropriate for a 12 grown man to ask a grown woman in an e-mail to turn 13 around and face her? 14 A. Depends on what the circumstances are. 15 Q. Do you believe it was appropriate for Richard 16 Holden to ask me to return around and face him? 17 MR. SCHULTZ: I'm going to object. This calls 18 for speculation. 19 But you're free to answer to the extent that 20 you know. 21 THE WITNESS: I saw e-mail regarding an 22 instance where that was raised but I didn't draw any 23 particular conclusions with respect to that. 24 BY MS. YEE: 25 Q. For my sake, would you draw a conclusion 0014 1 today? 2 A. My understanding -- my recollection is that 3 this -- that Richard was talking to you and that you 4 were not responsive to him when he was talking to you, 5 and it would seem unusual behavior not to be so. So it 6 wouldn't be strange to me necessarily to ask a person to 7 turn around if they were attempting to ignore a 8 supervisor. 9 Q. Now, in that e-mail, Richard indicates that I 10 did respond to him and that I later apologized for not 11 hearing him sooner. 12 Did you find his secondary e-mail to be 13 somewhat unusual? 14 MR. SCHULTZ: Objection. Calls for 15 speculation. We don't have any of these communications 16 in front of the witness at this time. 17 BY MS. YEE: 18 Q. Do you not have an opinion on that? 19 A. You're asking me for a precise recollection of 20 an instance that I haven't looked at in a long time. I 21 remember an e-mail coming through on this. 22 Q. You do remember an e-mail come through on 23 this? 24 A. Yeah. 25 Q. And you don't necessarily have an opinion as 0015 1 to whether it was unusual or not? 2 A. It clearly didn't seem wildly unusual or I 3 would have drawn a conclusion, obviously. 4 Q. How involved are you with the direct 5 subordinate's work? 6 A. I have a significant number of direct 7 subordinates. It depends on which ones. Some are more 8 intense than others. 9 Q. How about your regional commissioners? 10 A. Very frequent e-mail communication. 11 Reasonably frequent telephone conversations. Monthly 12 meetings. 13 Q. Would you say that you're fairly attuned to 14 what projects they're working on? 15 A. Yes. 16 Q. So you would know where they are in regards to 17 the work that they've been assigned or any type of 18 special projects that they're working on? 19 A. Most of them. Some of them that report to me, 20 some are activities they're working within the region 21 and their responsibility to run the region. So my 22 national office staff collects information on reasonable 23 performance and reports it. 24 Q. Are your regional commissioners occasionally 25 working on special projects? 0016 1 A. Yes. 2 Q. What type of special projects? 3 A. It varies by the regional commissioner or the 4 particular issues they're faced with. 5 In some cases, I will have them work 6 particular projects related to, say, response of 7 particular issues and particular programs, staff 8 development, strategic planning. I have them assigned 9 to various groups. Some are in the economic analysis 10 and steering committee. Others are in staff development 11 and training team. 12 Q. And how do you rate these type of projects? 13 A. By the results. 14 Q. Results. How do you know when they're being 15 successfully completed? 16 A. The projects are normally configured in such a 17 way that they are rather easily describable in terms of 18 results. 19 At the end of the year, for particular 20 projects, I have them report in the context -- the CCAR 21 process that is used for SES qualification. It deals 22 with the surrounding circumstances of the problem, what 23 you're doing about the problem and the results that you 24 achieve. I have them do that on some of their projects. 25 We discuss the projects as they're proceeding. Nancy 0017 1 Sefakis has collected some information and produces 2 information to me on project status and we talk about 3 it. 4 Q. So were you aware that podcasting was never 5 really a project of the Bureau of Labor Statistics? 6 MR. SCHULTZ: Objection. Assumes facts not in 7 evidence. 8 BY MS. YEE: 9 Q. You're correct. 10 How well was Richard Holden functioning in his 11 role working with podcasting? 12 A. I knew that -- of the idea to do podcasting. 13 I didn't have particular views as to whether it was 14 going to be a profitable way to go or not. But Richard 15 had talked to me two or three times about looking at 16 podcasting as a way to disseminate Bureau of Labor 17 Statistics data. He had mentioned it at one of our RFC 18 conference calls as well but I don't remember for sure. 19 Q. So, in your view, it was never really 20 validated as an official deliverable? 21 A. It was not validated as a deliverable. But I 22 expected him to go ahead and look into it if that was an 23 area that he thought might be profitable. And he was 24 doing it, as I understand it. 25 Q. And did he ever report back to you regarding 0018 1 any progress with this podcasting project? 2 A. I wasn't taking -- it wasn't one of his major 3 projects. I knew he was working on it but I wasn't 4 requiring reports on it. 5 Q. Did you ever ask why he was working on it? 6 A. Not that I recall because it would seem 7 obvious that he was looking at it as a dissemination 8 method. 9 Q. How so? 10 A. Podcasting is a dissemination method that 11 potentially could be used in our programs. 12 Q. Can you explain how Richard explained 13 podcasting to you? 14 A. You're asking for a recollection of long ago 15 discussions. I don't remember detailed discussions on 16 this point. 17 He talked to me about looking into podcasting. 18 I'm sure that I told him that we would not do podcasting 19 as a San Francisco-only activity. Do it out of San 20 Francisco without -- and not clearing it with BLS 21 national and not figuring out what our overall strategy 22 is before we launched it. 23 So I'm sure that I did tell him that this had 24 to be coordinated. It could not be a San Francisco 25 activity executed in San Francisco without clearance. 0019 1 Q. So he understood it to be something that the 2 national office had to give its approval to? 3 MR. SCHULTZ: Objection. Calls for 4 speculation as to what Richard Holden's understanding 5 was and he's not the witness. 6 BY MS. YEE: 7 Q. As his supervisor, was that your instruction 8 to him? 9 A. My instruction to him was not to implement 10 podcasting, that he would continue to look into it but 11 not to implement it on a San Francisco-only basis. 12 Q. And that the national office would be 13 involved? 14 A. That he needed to coordinate with the national 15 office, right. Specifically, the Office of 16 Publications. 17 Q. What is your understanding of sexual 18 harassment? 19 A. Unwanted advances of a sexual or romantic 20 nature. 21 Q. I'm sorry. The last word? 22 A. Of a sexual or romantic nature. 23 Q. Now, according to your EEO statement, after I 24 complained of sexual harassment by Richard Holden, you 25 took no action prior to or following the solicitor's 0020 1 report; is that correct? 2 MR. SCHULTZ: I'm just going to object here on 3 the basis that Mr. Gaddie doesn't have the statement in 4 front of him. 5 You can answer, to the best of your 6 recollection. 7 THE WITNESS: We requested the investigation. 8 When the investigation was completed, I reviewed it. 9 There was not actionable material in it. 10 BY MS. YEE: 11 Q. During this period of the investigation, 12 you -- did you have constructive knowledge that 13 harassing conduct was taking place? 14 A. I didn't have anything other than your e-mails 15 and various filings that I had seen that would indicate 16 that. 17 Q. How many times did you visit the San Francisco 18 office during this period? 19 A. I just don't recall. I just don't know. 20 Q. You don't recall visiting the San Francisco 21 office during this period? 22 MR. SCHULTZ: Objection, as to the phrase 23 "this period." It's not specific. 24 MS. YEE: I'm sorry. 25 Q. Between the period of January 2007 and my 0021 1 departure of May 2007, how many times did you visit the 2 San Francisco office? 3 A. I don't recall visiting the office but I don't 4 know that I wouldn't have been out here -- I just don't 5 remember. I don't think I visited the office during 6 that time period. 7 Q. I'm going to read a passage from the 8 secretary's policy on preventing harassing conduct in 9 the workplace. 10 "A supervisor who receives an allegation of 11 harassing conduct shall immediately, in consultation 12 with the EEO manager, take action to stop any harassing 13 conduct and prevent further harassment while the 14 allegations are being investigated, including granting 15 of interim relief to the alleged victim of harassing 16 conduct." 17 What does this mean to you? 18 A. Exactly what it says. 19 Q. And what action did you take? 20 A. There was request for interim relief. The 21 basis for that was insufficient to grant. 22 Interim relief is determined by our EEO 23 officer. And the request for interim relief was denied. 24 We immediately commissioned an investigation by David 25 Pena who was out here and talked to staff in the late 0022 1 spring, March or April, but proximate to the time that 2 this occurred. 3 Q. To paraphrase, the EEO manager was the person 4 with the authority to make the decision to take action 5 and she found it insufficient to take action? 6 A. We discussed the interim relief request. We 7 also discussed the results of the Pena investigation. 8 Q. And based upon those results, whose decision 9 was it to deny interim relief? 10 A. I didn't see a basis for interim relief. She 11 didn't see a basis for interim relief. The note was 12 sent by you. There wasn't -- there wasn't any 13 disagreement, I guess. 14 Q. There was no disagreement; both of you agreed 15 that no interim relief was to be granted? 16 A. That's correct. 17 Q. Can you please describe the day in the San 18 Francisco office on April 11th. 19 MR. SCHULTZ: Objection. Specify the year. 20 MS. YEE: 2007. 21 THE WITNESS: I don't understand this at all. 22 I have no recollection of what you're talking about. 23 What day? 24 BY MS. YEE: 25 Q. April 11, 2007 in the San Francisco office. 0023 1 A. That I was in the San Francisco office? I am 2 not understanding this at all. 3 Q. Were you in the San Francisco office? 4 A. I just have no idea what this question is. 5 Q. Please describe the day in the San Francisco 6 office on April 11, 2007. 7 MR. SCHULTZ: Objection. The witness has 8 already answered the question. 9 BY MS. YEE: 10 Q. Are you saying that you cannot describe the 11 day in the San Francisco office on April 11, 2007? 12 MR. SCHULTZ: Objection. The witness has 13 already answered this question. 14 MS. YEE: Please answer this question. 15 MR. SCHULTZ: I stated my objection for the 16 record. If the witness has a different answer than he 17 gave before, he's free to give a different answer. 18 THE WITNESS: I don't have a different answer. 19 BY MS. YEE: 20 Q. Please describe your day on April 11, 2007. 21 Where were you on April 11, 2007? At what time did 22 Richard contact you and what conversation did you have? 23 MR. SCHULTZ: Objection. Compound question. 24 You have to ask your questions one at a time. 25 Nonetheless, if you know what you were doing 0024 1 on April 11, 2007, you're free to answer. 2 THE WITNESS: I have no recollection as to 3 that precise date. I just don't know. 4 BY MS. YEE: 5 Q. On April 11th, I contacted you regarding 6 Richard's behavior, and his obsession with my 7 subordinate, with my speaking with a subordinate. Later 8 that day, Richard filed a complaint with Dorothy 9 Wigglesworth. The next day, I took extended leave for 10 one month. Mr. Holden spoke to you that day, or at 11 least I believe he did, because he spoke of "we," and I 12 am assuming that he spoke to you. 13 Did he speak to you that day? 14 A. I just don't recall. I really don't recall. 15 Q. You don't recall? 16 A. I really do not recall this. 17 Q. Did Richard ever indicate to you that I was 18 attracted to him? 19 A. No. 20 Q. To whom did Richard indicate I was attracted 21 to him? 22 MR. SCHULTZ: Objection. Calls for 23 speculation. There's no way this witness could know the 24 answer to that question. 25 BY MS. YEE: 0025 1 Q. When did you become aware that Richard filed a 2 complaint that I was attracted to him? 3 A. I knew that Richard filed a complaint but 4 after it was filed. 5 Q. Approximately when was that? 6 A. Without reference to a calendar, I couldn't 7 tell you. He filed it and -- so it was subsequent to 8 that. Probably within a day or two. 9 Q. Within a day or two. 10 Would you say it was after I had taken medical 11 leave? 12 A. I don't know the answer to that. You're 13 asking me to piece together a timeline. If I had my 14 calendar in front of me, I might be able to do that. 15 But I cannot do that just offhand. 16 Q. Did you believe I was attracted to Richard? 17 MR. SCHULTZ: Objection. There's no relevance 18 to this question. Calls for speculation. We need for 19 the witness to talk about what you believe the witness 20 is here to talk about, what he knows and what he 21 believes. 22 MS. YEE: I am trying to ascertain what a 23 reasonable person might believe or what a reasonable 24 institution might believe. 25 Q. Mr. Gaddie, as a reasonable person, did you 0026 1 believe that I was attracted to Richard? 2 MR. SCHULTZ: Same objection as before. 3 You're free to give whatever answer you see 4 fit, to the best of your ability. 5 THE WITNESS: I didn't have any particular 6 opinion on that. 7 BY MS. YEE: 8 Q. Did you question the logic behind it at all? 9 MR. SCHULTZ: Objection. The witness has just 10 stated he had no opinion on the subject. 11 BY MS. YEE: 12 Q. I'm going to go to April 6, 2007, on the day 13 you received my response to a proposed 14-day 14 suspension. 15 At what point after this did you decide that 16 suspension was unwarranted? 17 MR. SCHULTZ: Objection. Assumes facts not in 18 evidence. 19 BY MS. YEE: 20 Q. Mr. Gaddie, please answer the question. 21 MR. SCHULTZ: You're asking him -- just so 22 we're clear, you're asking him when he decided your 23 suspension was unwarranted? 24 MS. YEE: That is correct. 25 And he is free to answer that he did not 0027 1 decide that. He's free to answer it in any manner he 2 chooses. However, at what point did he decide it was 3 unwarranted? 4 MR. SCHULTZ: I stated my objection for the 5 record. 6 The witness can answer, to the best of his 7 ability. 8 THE WITNESS: I never made a decision on that 9 case. The case was pending. I didn't start writing a 10 decision. Didn't make a decision. 11 BY MS. YEE: 12 Q. So at the time that I departed, no decision 13 had been made regarding this suspension? 14 A. That's correct. 15 Q. Has a decision been made now? 16 A. No. 17 Q. I'm going to ask you about my performance. 18 What is it about my performance that you found 19 to be questionable about my work performance? 20 MR. SCHULTZ: Objection. Assumes facts not in 21 evidence. 22 MS. YEE: The solicitor's report very 23 specifically states that there were performance issues 24 associated with my work product. 25 Q. Mr. Gaddie, what did you find objectionable 0028 1 about my work product? 2 MR. SCHULTZ: Same objection. 3 You're free to answer. 4 THE WITNESS: The performance of the San 5 Francisco Economic Analysis and Information Office on 6 core products initiative was poor relative to the rest 7 of the country. There was no real analytic product 8 coming out of there. The dispersion across the programs 9 which is part of the core products initiative was not 10 being executed. The strategic plan had not been 11 submitted for the operations plan for San Francisco. 12 BY MS. YEE: 13 Q. Now, I have in front of me -- and this is from 14 the case file -- the last performance management plan in 15 which I received a highly effective. 16 Is this normally the rating received for this 17 type of performance? 18 A. I don't think that rating covered the 19 performance period that we're talking about here. 20 Q. How could that be? 21 A. That the performance that we're discussing is 22 at a different time than that particular rating. 23 Q. But isn't the latest rating period through the 24 fiscal year? How could you have a performance rating 25 period higher than that? Was there a PIP issued at any 0029 1 time? 2 MR. SCHULTZ: Objection. This is a compound 3 question. Vague as to time. 4 BY MS. YEE: 5 Q. Were there any PIPs issued to me prior to my 6 sexual harassment complaint? 7 A. Not to my knowledge. 8 Q. Were there any issued subsequent to my sexual 9 harassment? 10 A. Not to my knowledge. 11 Q. And yet the work product was not good. 12 How would a manager know that? 13 A. The process is that when work is deficient in 14 some ways, that supervisors work informally. The minute 15 they notice a deficiency, they don't just issue PIPs. 16 They work with the employee informally. Work to improve 17 the product. If it doesn't improve, then PIP's one of 18 the options. 19 Q. And so what you're stating is that the 14-day 20 suspension included elements of performance deficiencies 21 as well? 22 MR. SCHULTZ: Objection. That's not what he 23 stated. 24 You're free to answer the question, to the 25 best of your ability. 0030 1 THE WITNESS: I did not make a decision at all 2 related to the 14-day suspension. 3 BY MS. YEE: 4 Q. But there were performance issues you were 5 considering as well? 6 A. I wasn't really doing consideration of the 7 14-day suspension and never really did. I saw the 8 suspension notice. I went through the process of 9 gathering information and you sent me information in two 10 or three different iterations, and I clarified those. 11 But I never went through the process of sitting down 12 with that proposal and setting down with the information 13 that you submitted and putting them together and drawing 14 a conclusion. 15 Q. Did it seem to you that I found it urgent that 16 it be handled quickly? 17 Did I send any indication to you that I was 18 having difficulty in the San Francisco office with 19 Richard Holden? 20 A. That's two questions. 21 To the latter one, you did send information to 22 me that indicated you were having difficulty with 23 Richard. 24 Q. And what action did you take to assist me with 25 my difficulty with Richard? 0031 1 A. Richard and also Michael Dolfman and I talked 2 about the performance of the San Francisco unit. We 3 talked about how some of the work that was done in other 4 regions on their strategic plan, for example, might be 5 forwarded out so you guys could take a look at it. 6 Q. Now, regarding sequestration in my office, can 7 you explain why I was being asked to remove myself from 8 my employees? 9 MR. SCHULTZ: Objection. Assumes facts not in 10 evidence. 11 BY MS. YEE: 12 Q. Did you receive an e-mail indicating that I 13 had been asked to remove myself -- 14 A. From your employees? 15 Q. Yes. 16 A. Not that I recall in that terminology -- I 17 don't recall reading anything that I would perceive that 18 would have that effect. 19 Q. Did you -- do you recall receiving an e-mail 20 regarding David Blank? 21 A. No. That doesn't ring a bell at all. 22 Q. You do not recall receiving a David Blank 23 e-mail? 24 MR. SCHULTZ: Objection. Witness has already 25 answered this question. 0032 1 If you have a different answer, you're free to 2 give it. 3 BY MS. YEE: 4 Q. You were asked to bring a time sheet regarding 5 Richard Holden's day, Apple Store day, and you failed to 6 bring that. 7 I'm going to go ahead and I'm just going to 8 read from the report in which I state, "Richard, on the 9 other hand, had signed out at 3:07 perhaps indicating 10 that he did not consider the Apple Store presentation to 11 be part of his normal work, although I do not know what 12 he entered into his official time sheet." 13 What did he enter into his official time 14 sheet? 15 A. I don't know the answer to that. 16 Q. Did you read today's deposition request? 17 A. No. 18 Q. You did not read the deposition request? 19 A. That's correct. 20 Q. Was it provided to you? 21 MR. SCHULTZ: I'm going to object to this 22 entire line of questioning. Any conversations between 23 myself and Mr. Gaddie are subject to the attorney-client 24 privilege. As I represent, Mr. Gaddie, I'm responsible 25 for making sure that he's here and attending the 0033 1 deposition. I took custody of the deposition request. 2 I already stated my objection to your document request 3 at the very beginning of this deposition. 4 BY MS. YEE: 5 Q. To be clear, you never received a deposition 6 request; is that correct? 7 A. I received -- I knew that I was to appear for 8 deposition. I didn't receive a piece of paper that 9 described it more than that. 10 MS. YEE: May we take a break? 11 MR. SCHULTZ: Yes. 12 (Recess taken.) 13 BY MS. YEE: 14 Q. On the record. 15 One of my biggest questions to you is why you 16 didn't come down and investigate the allegations 17 yourself as the second line supervisor. 18 A. I'd seen your e-mails so I knew the things you 19 had to say. I talked to Richard about the things that 20 he had to say. And Dot and I agreed that we would send 21 an independent investigator and expedite it and get a 22 person out here for an investigation, which is what we 23 did. 24 Q. Is there any reason that during this period, 25 you decided not to take any action just in case there 0034 1 was sexual harassment? 2 A. The complaints seemed insufficient on their 3 face to justify interim relief, which is the note that 4 you got back. 5 Q. How would you rate Mr. Holden's credibility 6 over mine? 7 MR. SCHULTZ: Objection. Question calls for 8 speculation. It's not relative to these proceedings. 9 But you're free to answer, to the best of your 10 ability. 11 THE WITNESS: I look at what the person has to 12 say. I didn't draw a conclusion with respect to 13 comparative credibility in this particular case, and 14 that's why we sent the investigator out to see what we 15 could find out. 16 BY MS. YEE: 17 Q. Did you take a look at the investigator's 18 report carefully after they reached a conclusion to see 19 that the conclusion drawn was accurate relative to what 20 you knew? 21 A. Yes. 22 Q. And did you find that it was? 23 A. Yeah. Broadly within the range of the 24 conclusions they made, yes. 25 Q. So you found that after independently looking 0035 1 at the solicitor's decision, you would have drawn 2 exactly the same conclusion? 3 A. I don't understand that question. I read the 4 report. 5 Q. And would you have drawn the same conclusion 6 based upon -- 7 A. From the information that is in the report, 8 the conclusions seemed reasonable. 9 Q. Can you explain how asking me how things were 10 going and facing him adds to the work product? 11 MR. SCHULTZ: Objection. That question is 12 vague and ambiguous. 13 If you understand the question, you're free to 14 answer, to the best of your ability. 15 THE WITNESS: Any interaction between the 16 supervisor and an employee can -- is -- you know, should 17 be a professional interaction as well as connected to 18 the business. I don't know whether this was or not. I 19 saw what you thought. I saw what Richard thought. 20 BY MS. YEE: 21 Q. And you found that facing him would have 22 enhanced the work-related product? 23 A. No. I'm not saying I made that decision. 24 Q. Would you have? 25 A. This seems a very trivial thing to me. 0036 1 Q. Trivial enough that you wouldn't send it a 2 second e-mail? 3 A. Say it again. 4 Q. Trivial enough that you wouldn't send a second 5 e-mail? 6 A. That I wouldn't send a second e-mail? 7 Q. Regarding such a matter? 8 A. I don't know. I'm not in that position. It 9 didn't happen with me. 10 Q. Did Mr. Holden's Apple Store date raise any 11 red flags with you? 12 MR. SCHULTZ: Objection. Assumes facts not in 13 evidence. That's an argumentative question. 14 You're free to answer that question, to the 15 best of your ability. 16 THE WITNESS: I'm not even sure when I first 17 learned about the trip to the Apple Store. 18 BY MS. YEE: 19 Q. But you did review the solicitor's report? 20 A. Yes. It was submitted in late April, and I 21 saw it in there. 22 Q. And you reached the same conclusion that the 23 solicitor would have reached? 24 A. That's correct. 25 Q. After taking one month off, I returned to the 0037 1 office on May 1st, 2007. 2 Can you please describe what happened that 3 day. 4 A. We're talking about the date that you 5 announced your resignation. 6 That day or very proximate to that day, I 7 think that I received a communication through the EA&I 8 chief channel, I may have seen it first, which was 9 forwarded in your message. 10 Q. Where were you at the time? 11 A. I just don't recall. I could have been in 12 Dallas. I could have been in Washington. I could have 13 been elsewhere. I assume I was in Dallas or Washington. 14 I don't know without a calendar. 15 Q. Were you unaware of any actions that took 16 place in the San Francisco office? 17 A. Without something more precise to go on, no. 18 Q. And would that be the same for May 2nd as 19 well? 20 A. Without more to go on -- if you had something 21 specific to remind me, but offhand, no. 22 Q. On May 2nd, you were also not in the San 23 Francisco office? 24 A. I don't think so, no. 25 Q. There was no direct supervision of Richard 0038 1 Holden in May; is that correct? No direct physical 2 supervision of Richard Holden? 3 A. I administered the regions of the Bureau of 4 Labor of Statistics. I cannot be in all places at once, 5 and he is supervised the same way that other regional 6 commissioners are supervised in my Washington staff when 7 I'm not present in Washington. 8 Q. Can you describe what the last day in the 9 office was like for me -- 10 MR. SCHULTZ: Objection. 11 BY MS. YEE: 12 Q. -- on May 14th -- 13 MR. SCHULTZ: Calls for speculation. 14 BY MS. YEE: 15 Q. -- 2007? 16 MR. SCHULTZ: Objection. Calls for 17 speculation. Mr. Gaddie was not in the office in order 18 for him to know the answer to that. 19 You're free to answer, to the best of your 20 ability, if you know. 21 THE WITNESS: I don't know. 22 MS. YEE: No further questions. 23 MR. SCHULTZ: I'd just like to note for the 24 record that Miss Wigglesworth is not a represented 25 party. So she will need to have an opportunity to 0039 1 review her transcript or it cannot become an official 2 record of the case. 3 (Whereupon, at 2:52 p.m., the 4 deposition of ROBERT A. GADDIE 5 was concluded.) 6 * * * * * 7 8 9 10 11 12 13 14 15 16 17 18 19 20 21 22 23 24 25 0040 1 CERTIFICATION OF DEPOSITION OFFICER 2 I, SUZANNE A. QUAN, duly authorized to administer 3 oaths pursuant to Section 2093 (b) of the California 4 Code of Civil Procedure, hereby certify that the witness 5 in the foregoing deposition was by me sworn to testify 6 the truth, the whole truth and nothing but the truth in 7 the within-entitled cause; that said deposition was 8 taken at the time and place therein stated; that the 9 testimony of said witness was thereafter transcribed by 10 means of computer-aided transcription; that the 11 foregoing is a full, complete, and true record of said 12 testimony; and that the witness was given an opportunity 13 to read and correct said deposition and to subscribe the 14 same. 15 I further certify that I am not of counsel or 16 attorney for either or any of the parties in the 17 foregoing deposition and caption named, or in any way 18 interested in the outcome of this cause named in said 19 caption. 20 21 22 23 24 SUZANNE A. QUAN, CSR No. 5157 25 0041 1 May 21, 2008 2 Robert A. Gaddie c/o Andrew J. Schultz, Esq. 3 US DEPARTMENT OF LABOR OFFICE OF THE SOLICITOR 4 90 7th Street, Suite 3-700 San Francisco, California 94103 5 Dear Mr. Schultz: 6 The deponent in the above-referenced matter did 7 not waive signature. Accordingly, pursuant to the applicable rules of civil procedure (California Code of 8 Civil Procedure 30), please be advised that the deposition transcript is available in our San Rafael 9 office by appointment for reading, correcting and signing. The transcript will be available for thirty 10 (30) days. 11 Errata changes must be signed by the deponent and returned to our office within the thirty (30) day 12 time period. The official transcript for the noticing counsel (with exhibits), will be mailed in accordance 13 with the Califoria Code of Civil Procedure depending upon the action of the deponent. 14 Again, thank you very much for the opportunity 15 to serve you. Please do not hesitate to call upon our office with any questions. 16 17 Best regards, 18 19 20 Suzanne Quan, CSR 21 22 cc: Original Transcript 23 All Counsel 24 25 0042 1 A C K N O W L E D G E M E N T O F D E P O N E N T 2 3 I, ROBERT A. GADDIE, do hereby acknowledge I have read 4 and examined the foregoing pages of testimony, and the 5 same is a true, correct, and complete transcription of 6 the testimony given by me, and any changes or 7 corrections, if any, appeared in the attached errata 8 sheet signed by me. 9 10 11 12 13 14 15 16 17 18 19 20 21 22 23 24 ______________ _______________________ 25 Date ROBERT A. GADDIE 0043 1 Golden Gate Reporting 35 Mitchell Boulevard, Suite 8 2 San Rafael, California 94903 (415) 499-DEPO (3376) 3 4 E R R A T A S H E E T 5 Case Name: Yee v. Department of Labor Witness Name: ROBERT A. GADDIE 6 Deposition Date: Wednesday, May 7, 2008 Page No. Line No. Change 7 8 9 10 11 12 13 14 15 16 17 18 19 20 21 22 23 24 _________________ ______________ 25 Signature Date